Curse

Taurucis · Feb 23, 2008, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Try getting a PuG as a paragon or mesmer.

Tyla · Feb 23, 2008, 10:43 PM // 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

Try getting a PuG as a paragon or mesmer.

May I pass down the note that at least 95% PuGs fail?
They can somehow fail at playing Paragons...

And besides, I thought your point was that they were nerfed into being obselete?

Creeping Carl · Feb 24, 2008, 02:12 AM // 02:12

I can understand Mesmers not being as effective in PVE as they are in PVP and so people automatically think "they suck", but Paragons? I'm wondering what you people are doing so wrong that you think they're "obsolete".

Or maybe I'm some sort of miracle worker where I can get my Paragon teams to work somehow whereas others seem to think they're useless....

Avarre · Feb 24, 2008, 02:18 AM // 02:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

Try getting a PuG as a paragon or mesmer.

Paragon is the strongest PvE class in the game.

I had no problem getting pugs as a Mesmer because I made my own groups. Leader gets to pick what goes in, after all.

Saying PvP nerfs damage the PvE game is incredibly naive. If you're relying on a skill so heavily that you have to complain when it gets nerfed, it was probably too good anyway.

ensoriki · Feb 24, 2008, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Saying PvP nerfs damage the PvE game is incredibly naive. If you're relying on a skill so heavily that you have to complain when it gets nerfed, it was probably too good anyway.

Except horns!

Bryant Again · Feb 24, 2008, 03:46 AM // 03:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

Try getting a PuG as a paragon or mesmer.

It's not that those classes suck, it's just that PUGs think they do.

Also, didn't you kinda contradict yourself here?

Taurucis · Feb 24, 2008, 04:20 AM // 04:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Except horns!

Exactly.

I said nowhere that Mesmers and paragons were incredibly weak. I just said that they're the two classes that have been hit the most from complaints from PvPers. I have a mesmer, I love using her (I can make every single class cry if I'm using the correct build) but I've never been able to get a PuG with her. I wind up forming my own groups.

maraxusofk · Feb 24, 2008, 04:33 AM // 04:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

Exactly.

I said nowhere that Mesmers and paragons were incredibly weak. I just said that they're the two classes that have been hit the most from complaints from PvPers. I have a mesmer, I love using her (I can make every single class cry if I'm using the correct build) but I've never been able to get a PuG with her. I wind up forming my own groups.

mesmer nerf? im pretty sure anet buffed many mesmer skills that would be more useful in pve (like empathy) and nerfed those that wouldnt matter (like power leak)

Taurucis · Feb 24, 2008, 04:38 AM // 04:38

Clumsiness and Ineptitude. I used to use them to interrupt assassin skill chains, or save monks from non-spellcaster bosses. Now they cast too slow, even with the 9 fast casting I run.

Sab · Feb 24, 2008, 04:39 AM // 04:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

I said nowhere that Mesmers and paragons were incredibly weak. I just said that they're the two classes that have been hit the most from complaints from PvPers. I have a mesmer, I love using her (I can make every single class cry if I'm using the correct build) but I've never been able to get a PuG with her. I wind up forming my own groups.

And this is the PvPer's fault how? That pugs don't realise Paragons are the strongest PvE profession? That Mesmers abilities are useless against the overall design of PvE mobs? I fail to see how you can blame either problem on PvP balance.

Taurucis · Feb 24, 2008, 04:41 AM // 04:41

Most of the skill nerfs are because PvPers thought a skill was too overpowered. Like Horns of the Ox (which is obsolete in PvE where stuff is usually clustered up) and Ether Prodigy (which is now completely obsolete...)

Let's not forget Soul Reaping, either. I know you can still manage, but the fact still remains that PvPers whined and SR got nerfed.

Bryant Again · Feb 24, 2008, 04:44 AM // 04:44

You can not only manage in PvE, but you can still do incredibly successful in it.

But still, PvP shouldn't be blamed for the idiocy of puggers.

Sab · Feb 24, 2008, 04:52 AM // 04:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

Most of the skill nerfs are because PvPers thought a skill was too overpowered. Like Horns of the Ox (which is obsolete in PvE where stuff is usually clustered up) and Ether Prodigy (which is now completely obsolete...)

Let's not forget Soul Reaping, either. I know you can still manage, but the fact still remains that PvPers whined and SR got nerfed.

So why were you blaming PvPers on how it was difficult for Mesmers and Paragons to pug?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

I'd think Guild Wars started as PvP, that's why it's such a mess as it is today, with a bunch of skills nerfed until they had no use and two classes pretty much obsolete.

Taurucis · Feb 24, 2008, 04:55 AM // 04:55

No... I changed the topic. It is because most people are too dumb to know that Mesmers and Paragons are useful - you can tell them how powerful the classes are but they'll still think that you're begging for a spot.

However, I was saying that it was because of PvP that there's a good amount of skills that are nerfed into becoming absolutely useless.

Hyper Cutter · Feb 24, 2008, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Saying PvP nerfs damage the PvE game is incredibly naive. If you're relying on a skill so heavily that you have to complain when it gets nerfed, it was probably too good anyway.

Unless they nerf an entire primary attribute, anyway...

And then later nerf the thing that was breaking the attribute, but refuse to revert the original nerf despite it no longer being needed...

Sab · Feb 24, 2008, 05:12 AM // 05:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

No... I changed the topic. It is because most people are too dumb to know that Mesmers and Paragons are useful - you can tell them how powerful the classes are but they'll still think that you're begging for a spot.

However, I was saying that it was because of PvP that there's a good amount of skills that are nerfed into becoming absolutely useless.

Then it might be wise to use separate sentences because from the way you wrote that, you're saying PvP caused all of the following: "such a mess", "a bunch of skills nerfed" and "two classes pretty much obsolete."

As for a "bunch of skills nerfed" you do realise that PvP also caused a bunch of skills to be *buffed*? It's kind of stupid to talk about balance if you're only going to mention nerfs - it shows you don't understand the reasoning or you want to portray skill balance as something that is uncalled for.

Taurucis · Feb 24, 2008, 05:43 AM // 05:43

Usually the skills that got buffed usually have limited use in PvE, either that or they get ridiculously overpowered. And the ones that see little to no use in PvP get ignored, meaning no updates or bug fixes for them. Shattering Assault much?

maraxusofk · Feb 24, 2008, 05:44 AM // 05:44

ill use empathy to back up sab's argument. theres others, but empathy is on my mind atm. i see many ha teams with sins run shattering assault........

Avarre · Feb 24, 2008, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyper Cutter

Unless they nerf an entire primary attribute, anyway...

And then later nerf the thing that was breaking the attribute, but refuse to revert the original nerf despite it no longer being needed...

Soul Reaping was broken in both PvE and PvP. It's still extremely powerful.

Sab · Feb 24, 2008, 09:35 AM // 09:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

Usually the skills that got buffed usually have limited use in PvE, either that or they get ridiculously overpowered. And the ones that see little to no use in PvP get ignored, meaning no updates or bug fixes for them. Shattering Assault much?

Right now, especially with PvE skills, all classes have decent builds that can drop mobs in record time. What's the problem?